Adolfo Díaz is a lifelong learner who declares himself to be self-taught and a user of ICT, to a greater extent since the mid-90s.
At that time, when the Internet was still not working satisfactorily, he was connected, via modem, to a Reuters information service and accessed a large number of articles and reports on topics of his work. He learned about Computer Aided Teaching (on floppies) in the 1980s, as well as interactive video systems on 12-inch discs, and has estimated his e-learning hours (mostly online) at more than 5,000 since then.
P.: You must know a lot, Adolfo, after so many hours of flight. What can you tell us about this experience to begin with?
A.: Well, there are two basic ways to learn online: formally orchestrated on a platform, and freely, informally, openly. In the latter case, which has been mine in almost all my learning experience, we must speak of exploration, search, and even serendipitous discoveries on the Internet. You would learn faster if you accessed good packaged e-learning, platform or extra-platform products, but the fact is that, for the knowledge I need, I prefer to search without limit of sources. This ends up producing solid learning, although it does take time; but I am satisfied, yes, of the so-called Information Society.
Q.: Do you really end up finding what you are looking for on the Internet ?
A.: What you are looking for and what you are not looking for, but I am telling you about my case, which may be different from others. There is a lot of information, and it is very interesting for my work as a training consultant, but one has to contrast it, to analyze it, to synthesize it… You cannot take what you read as good, but that also happens with printed books. For example, I am reading one about 21st century management and, regardless of the authors saying things that should be taken with a certain perspective, the translation is deficient and that generates discomfort and insecurity. It rarely happens, but this one is poorly translated.
Q.: Let's continue on the Internet: what is your opinion of the information you find? Is it interesting and intelligible?
A.: Look, when you open a web page, you immediately discover, by the forms and the funds, if that information is for you or not. If it is, you add the page to your archive and study it. Normally you can extract 4 or 5 valuable messages, but you have to contrast them with other information, before adding anything to your body of knowledge. If something is very interesting and very extensive, then I print it for careful study, and I am indebted to the author.
Q.: What issues are you on now?
A.: I go around with innovation issues, because 2009 is the European Year of Creativity and Innovation, and these days I am returning to a character that already interested me a lot about 8 years ago, when I came across him: Genrich Altshuller. At that time I did not know how to appreciate its importance, or perhaps I did not find enough information on the Internet, but now there is much more, and this figure attracts me a lot for its extraordinary display of analytical, synthetic, connective and abstractive thinking; for the exemplary management he made of the very rich knowledge he was able to access: a patent registry. I'm talking about the 1940s, when the knowledge management buzzword didn't sound. I would spend all the time talking about this ingenious engineer, but let's talk about e-learning.
Q.: What do you think of the e-learning courses, the ones that appear on the companies' platforms?
A.: I am not satisfied with what I have seen, and not even the courses that I myself designed in 2001 and 2002; but what I am telling you refers to transversal, general courses, aimed at broad groups…, besides, I have not seen so much as to draw consistent conclusions from my opinion. There are probably technical courses related to the activity of each company, which do generate significant learning… In the general courses that are offered, there are well thought out and interesting things, but also, to a considerable extent, quite superficial things with which time can be wasted. I do not know if, in designs, effectiveness is sometimes confused with effectism, but one can be clicking several times and waiting, to finally find a truism, and even something contrary to common sense. For a good message,I don't need special effects, and for a bad message, either.
P.: I had already been warned that you are somewhat critical…
A.: Well, I consider myself a reflective and critical thinker, which is different from criticality…; But I have to tell you that if a learner was not a critical thinker, then he could swallow everything he was told, and I do not advise that to anyone. Not talking about books, or the Internet, or platform e-learning, or newspapers, or television… We have to contrast any information before incorporating it into our body of knowledge, and of course before making important decisions.
Q.: It is true that organizations such as the Tripartite Foundation have already denounced at times that the e-learning sector was not generating, with its products and services, significant learning in workers and managers, but what is happening? Why is this so? I'm asking you because in addition to being a learner, you are a consultant.
A.: I fear that teaching by computer, almost from the beginning, is not being sufficiently an activity of teachers, but, on many occasions, of computer technicians, and perhaps graphic designers. I am indeed a training consultant but, especially as an e-learner, I think that Didactics in its electronic version may have been adulterated. What one of those courses offered teaches me, I can learn in much less time on paper. Perhaps this should not be said like that, but things would not improve if we all gave up.
Q.: What exactly do you mean when you speak of adulteration of the Didactics?
I say that one obtains knowledge from information, and not from special effects or the brilliance of technology; but I'm just telling you my opinion, and I count on each e-learner to have their own, equally legitimate. I would advise you to ask many e-learners; not to e-learning providers, not to training departments, not to national and international consultants, but to e-learners who can express themselves freely: Have you encountered - it should be asked - in e-learning courses? -learning really valuable, concise and intelligible information, easy to translate into applicable knowledge?
P.: Well, you have left it to me, Adolfo, what is, for you, an e-learner?
A.: Good question, because what I have in mind is the professional lifelong learner, so to speak; one who knows that his work would lose value if he did not learn continuously, and not just knowledge. I think of the professional who does not have to be of power, but a desire to know and innovate. I don't know if you wanted to interview this e-learner or another…; I mean the individual who knows what he wants to learn, and is willing to learn it in one way or another.
P.: Yes, yes, for this emerging economy of knowledge and innovation, I bet on the permanent learner that you draw, and I think that I myself am approaching the profile and that I am quite self-taught…; but there must also be e-learning users who limit themselves to following the online courses that I summon them, in order to add courses to their file…
A.: Sure, Pepe. And there are also workers who follow specific instructions from their bosses, and “limit themselves” (put it in quotation marks) to the instructions received, as there are also workers who, in companies that catalyze this relationship, agree on goals and means, and develop with sensible autonomy. There is almost everything, and there are, of course, intelligent and innovative organizations, and organizations almost like the ones Scott Adams drew for us. This way we would open a great digression… Question, question.
Q.: Yes, I have more topics to discuss. What do you think of corporate e-learning platforms ?
A.: The way I see it, a quantum leap should be made in terms of platforms, as in other aspects of e-learning; but perhaps there are interests that make it difficult. I believe that platforms are too small for those who want to learn and share knowledge with others, and I also believe that nobody likes to be watched while they are learning (or working). Basically, I bet on the empowerment of the learner, if it does not seem very revolutionary for the interview. Where will it come out?
Q.: Well, I was thinking of sending it to some Internet portals with which I collaborate… In principle, no one reviews what I write when I publish articles… and I understand that you can say what you think, without offending anyone…
A.: Well, I bet on the greater prominence of learners in continuous training, because one only learns what they want to learn, and only apply what they want to apply, although they can do many courses if they force them, and collect the corresponding certificates. On the other hand, you can take a lot of sales courses because your boss says you don't sell, but then the problem may lie in the quality-price ratio of the products, etc. Or, if you are a manager, you can take many leadership courses, and crown yourself with leader nimbus, and that your subordinates continue to see you as a manager, even as a bad manager.
Q.: Okay, okay, Adolfo… Let's go back to e-learning: do you think it is a clearly growing modality, as the sector agents say?
A.: Let's see, e-learning is as unquestionable as ICT; those that can be questionable are a good part of the platform courses that are offered. I believe that the use of the Internet for learning is growing, but that the follow-up of packaged courses is relatively stagnant, and that the growth mentioned could be due to the supply of subsidized online courses. I fear that the only way to talk about sensible growth is to mix e-learning with blended learning, that is, to distort reality; But I may be wrong As a learner, I only prefer the platform e-learning that is offered to us, if it generates "faster", "more effective" and "more pleasant" learning; Yes No No.I imagine that the providers have already set themselves the task of making precisely products that generate this learning faster, more effective and more comfortable.
Q.: Let's go to the content offered, but without talking yet about the quality or the effect you were referring to. What do you think of the offer, in terms of titles and content, within the online training? Is the supply of degrees aligned with the demand for training for the 21st century?
A.: Indeed, what is important is what to learn and not so much how. In this regard, and speaking of broad-spectrum courses, they continue to be offered, for example, meeting courses that have not contributed much to their effectiveness: I do not know that conversational skills are finally addressed, but only things like the agenda, the call, the participation, the conclusions, the decisions, the action plan… Time management courses continue to be offered, when perhaps what needs to be managed better is care, or time is managed by your boss. You have to renew the offer, without a doubt, but take advantage at the same time to do things better in terms of the effectiveness of the courses, in tune with real needs.
Q.: So, do you have to redesign the courses?
A.: I believe that the profiles of bosses and subordinates must be reviewed, without being influenced by the leadership and follow-up models that are preached, and that effective training must be provided for the cultivation of these profiles. But above all, attend to the technical knowledge that we all need to renew almost every day, especially if we have to make decisions in the company.
Q.: Let's talk about quality now. What do you think of the e-learning quality certifications, the quality seals?
A.: Corcholis Pepe, that seems like a trick question. I don't pay much attention to quality certificates and certifications. The last oven that we bought at home came with a quality seal, but it had a broken rivet and the technician who was going to install it told me that I could put a screw, but that the norm prohibited it: we had to wait for another to be brought oven. Regarding e-learning, as an e-learner I prefer to be the one who sanctions the quality of the products of which I am a user, and I would consider it a sham to be told that a course is good, if it does not generate the promised learning… It reminds me when we complained of cold in a plant of a large company, and then five or six maintenance men would come with sophisticated measuring devices and tell us that everything was fine.
Q.: Do you think e-learning users are dissatisfied?
A.: It depends on what you mean by e-learning, but what I would say is to do surveys on users and not on training directors. As you surely know, Íñigo Babot recounts the case of 10,000 dissatisfied users with an e-learning course in a large company: apparently, a group of international consultants was hired to find out what was happening, and international consultants, after their analysis (platform, tutors, content…), they said that everything was fine… Observe: 10,000 users so dissatisfied that the company hired a group of international consultants to find out why, and they said that everything was fine and feeling "lost".
Q.: Now I am somewhat lost: what else can we talk about?
A.: Yes, I see it as a conversation, rather than an interview. Let me ask you. You are an e-teacher, there are more than a million words of yours on the Internet…, and there are still writing courses that use your texts in their practices…
Pepe: Well, there are many words of mine in digital and on paper, but quite a few are repeated…, and some changed. Yes, I write a lot because I like it, and it happens to me sometimes that, looking for information, I come across my texts, but what is important is the opinion of readers, e-learners, those who want to learn.
Adolfo: Well, I think that platform courses are a modest part of total e-learning, and that e-learning is only part of lifelong learning. The rest is classroom training, on the job, etc., without forgetting the increasingly important informal learning, nor forgetting that we are all a bit self-taught as well. But above all, I think that we should talk more about what to learn and less about how to do it. So, in synthesis.
Pepe.: Well, I have to thank you now, although much more can be said about all this. Perhaps at another time we can talk about the use that companies make of the knowledge of workers and their creativity, but for today it may be worth… Do you want to add something?
Adolfo: Well, only that I, in reality, am an alter ego of yours, and that I thank you for the opportunity to express myself, whether or not you agree with my spontaneity and frankness. I may be wrong, but I like to say what I think, and I would like the e-learners to express themselves more; that we were louder, and louder, especially as users of platform courses. But I already told you that what is important is lifelong learning, whatever the method followed, and in tune with jobs and professional development.
