Roberto de vries on labor sexuality and organizational power

Dr. Roberto De Vries: "People are not judged on their sex life, unless they are promiscuous or a power climber."

Product of years of experimental and methodological research with some private companies in the country, the Venezuelan journalist, sexologist and psychiatrist Dr. Roberto De Vries, matures that the issue of the organizational sexual climate, appears as an open or hidden power within the business dynamics Venezuelan. This is how it is known in rigorous studies and measurements that were revealed only to each of the many private companies, object of its analysis. Therefore, he did not want to advance the percentage results, but he does tell us in this interview about the conclusions drawn from his studies on organizational climate.

In advance, as the first technical suggestion of Dr. Roberto De Vries, both public and private organizations should delve into their maps of power, especially regarding the spheres of erotic and affective behavior on which “I do not see the research Let him honor that importance ”, insisted the doctor, to which he also added, based on his conclusions, the following:“ Let the myth fall that we are excellent loves! When we go to the visualizations of love we find a superficial love based on pure closeness ”.

As part of his technical advances, De Vries tells us that his research contains a data collection instrument applied as a sort of survey to focus groups within companies. In this regard, the specialist states that the maps are made up of fifteen actions that are measured on a scale of 1 to 10, and where love is examined as dynamic, through perceptions. The dynamics of pleasure, struggle, knowledge and having are added to its measurements.

For Dr. De Vries, love in work must be analyzed from the approach as a first action. Likewise, from acceptance and improvement. “At work with the other we observe that our loves are very superficial, evaluated from the idea of whether two people see each other two or three more times, we are already intimate loves. And that's not true. Expectations are never met in the country ”, he insists.

As a result of his inquiries into the Venezuelan private administration, the highest dynamic explored is enjoyment in general, along with motivation and satisfaction. “I have never wondered how much fun is at work. You are proposing a good area of investigation… When we find the highest level actions, the one best specified in all social classes is the ability to enjoy (surrender to experience) which is the action of power and pleasure. In the economic power of having, the highest value is consuming. This gives us a positive path of the Venezuelan that is very strange… It is not that we consume to enjoy, without enjoying to consume. So, love means having someone by your side and, if there are no deep relationships, the only way to have people by your side is through pleasure,power and consumption ”, he says.

From the results of the negative map in private organizations in the country, investment (future wealth of the Venezuelan) is observed as part of economic power, along with production and consumption. "We do not invest in order not to systematize, that means that we purposely want to ignore ourselves, that is, we do not want to explore who we are because we are probably going to find that we do not approach, that we do not investigate and we do not invest in order not to know each other," he thinks.

- Why do you think that the issue of the exercise of sexuality in work "is so little explored"? As you pointed out in an e-mail, prior to this interview.

- Yes, because the work-sex relationship is much deeper than most employees have seen it. Too many circumstantial partners arise at work and a great deal of erotic desires are elicited. We have not realized its importance, because it is something so everyday and obvious. So it is believed that everyone knows a lot about it and maybe not.

- What is the nature of the relationship between Venezuelans regarding the places where you work?

- As a result of my research and that of other colleagues, the Venezuelan goes to work for the love that he does not get at home. Love as affection. Many of the Venezuelan aspirations are to complete, complement or supplement all of this. For me, work involves a very dangerous source of affective bonds, but work is not a connection to a large extent, not even for productivity, it is not a connection for the development of intellectual growth, and it is not for social development, because we would have much more social capital.

- So will love at work be superficial?

- I have not investigated the respective maps. But, probably, if this is valid to infer it at other levels as it has been done, it could be that our love at work is superficial. This would have to be linked to basic motivations, such as the power that is sought in jobs. It is a link to the affiliation that is defended by some authors and myself. That is, we go to work to generate deep ties that we do not know how to establish because we do not know how to do it, we do not even know how to accept the other as they are and we do not know much less to improve the other. There, love is an eternal search for love through mass consumption. Working sex is another negotiation. But, “el pana or panita”, is a circumstantial alliance relationship, because there is an intermediate between partner, ally and friend. And it never becomes love.That is to say, in "un (a) pana" there is no love. There is no commitment to the other. If we transfer this to work, it is most likely that in them, sex - which has not been as studied as it can be - is part of another alliance.

- Will there be dichotomies between private sexual life and the practice of sexuality in organizations?

- There is no private sex life, for me sex life is intimate. For me there are three spaces: the public, the private and the intimate, because when people come to a sexual activity, they are already in the intimacy of the other. Now, private can that relationship be. Private, a space… Part of the crisis in human relationships is knowing how to differentiate that intimacy, that privacy. Once there was sex, there are intimate relationships. Now coming back from an intimate relationship, to a private relationship, is frequent, that is: we went to bed, we met. Great! We did very well, or we did very badly or nothing extraordinary happened, but from there you can go to the private world.

- So, there are employees who take their intimate life to work and maintain loving relationships with other people at work...

- Gossip is part of the elements of power to analyze within a work environment, that is, when one sees intimate relationships valued by the sexual part, if a profile of sexual life is made to each of the members of the work team Deep down, a very important aspect of the power of that personality is being accomplished. That is, if you have a power that is based on your erotic life, to give pleasure or receive, you already have a different status, to people who do not give erotic pleasure. Therefore, comes the social control and the power struggle, which means trying to discredit those who have relationships through gossip.

- What do you think of the job discredit based on sex?

- In my opinion as a sexologist, psychiatrist and, above all, as a human being, a sexual relationship should not be a disservice. If the relationships are consensual, responsible and get it right, that's perfect. Although for organizations it is an element of power and visualization of it.

- What is your opinion of organizational promiscuity?

- It is a disorganized power, or it is a way that someone, with a lot of sexual attractiveness, wants to reinforce a part of a sexuality by doing promiscuity within the same environment. And this is related to the previous question, that is, someone very promiscuous sexually, can be very popular and that popularity can give them a lot of power, but also, from some moment to another, it can be taken away, according to how they handle themselves gossip.

- What do you think of homophobia within organizations?

- All legal mechanisms make this understood. The role of the media has been very good in this regard, where the homosexual and the lesbian are part of the normal exponents that anyone can have.

- What can you tell us about machismo within organizations?

- Yes there is machismo, but there is more punishment towards the homophobic than towards the homosexual. Those are interesting dynamics that are being formed in the public and private administration. The homophobic receives more social and labor punishment than homosexuals or lesbians. Now, perhaps open and promiscuous homosexuality is punished, that is, a typical outrageous behavior.

- What do you think of "The mattress operation"?

- The mattress operation is no longer very successful. Before, Operation Mattress with all that cheap morality was exposed both internally and in the media. Now like everything, it is much more open, it is as if within the sexual power, people understand that it is honest and that it is dishonest. For example, the one who seeks a sexual promotion, moving his sexuality, already quickly enters the gossip, is destroyed and is equated or normalized by the same working group. Before, it was a lot of mystery and gossip was more closed, underlying. Sexual behavior is much more demystified.

- Some professions seem to be more likely to talk more about other people. For example, it is said that all secretaries or assistants sleep with their boss. And there is another that seems to be interesting to analyze and that is that it is presumed –and it is clear from the sinful comments-, that all Public Affairs or Corporate Communications Managers would be women of the organization's leaders.

- They are visions, they are perceptions, and they are important insofar as they are perceptions, but that perception reproduces reality or not, because there are many assistants who do not have a sexual life with their boss. And there are some that do, but the good thing is that right now the subject is much more open.

- What do you think of the moral and ethical attacks in the works?

- For me the moral and the ethical are two different things. The moral attack could be the attack on some values perceived by certain communities, while the ethical values are already skinned to dignity. What is much more important is sexual harassment and mobbing than people's sexual behavior. People are not judged on their sex life, unless they are promiscuous or a power climber. But most people think that people's sexual lives are respected and that has been contributed by the development of science, the development of sexology and communications. TV series have put people as we are, it is much more open.

- But, isn't it wrong to expose sexuality in that way, submitting it openly as in TV series? There are series of homosexuals, for example. There are channels like E! that transmits a program at night that promotes sex in its various aspects. Is there debauchery, outburst, excess or what on world TV?

- Yes, maybe I do it with the vision of a communications specialist. It seems to me that those people on the Naked Wild On show are looking for joy and pleasure, but they are not happy. All of that seems like a staging to me. It's very fake. For me, joy is one of the four basic emotions and it is the one that people like the most. Joy is three different things: bliss, pleasure, and happiness. Bliss is celebration, it is a lot of celebration and it is a lot of sexual pleasure. I have made several criticisms of this program and I notice that it lacks happiness.

- But at work you also see the same thing: you have sex and the next day they forget what happened. I raised it because on some occasion I managed to perceive that a co-worker had relationships with some of the women there, at least that is what he suggested, and then he said that he forgot about them…

- This is a very Venezuelan project. It is the project of much happiness, celebration and pleasure; satisfaction with sensory achievements to compensate for joy, because joy is not based on deeper structures. In search of happiness: bonche, happiness, sugarcane, women and / or men, sex, etc. If that culture is brought to work, there will be problems. Both men and women who are promiscuous, but the same organizational dynamics, gradually take them out, unless they are the boss and the owner. They earn a very bad reputation and break their image. I have seen many cases where these bosses who take advantage of their position of power to have sex suddenly get an accusation of mobbing or the discredit of "crazy old man or crazy old woman".

- What is your opinion of public policies on labor sexuality?

- The Constitutional Reform in Venezuela is asking not to leave a job for gender freedom, that seems normal to me… Someone for being zero positive they will not vote for him. People are not going to vote for having a different sexual orientation. From a legal point of view it is being highly protected.

- A British study revealed that female workers have had sex in the cloakroom, the boss's office, the boss's desk, the parking lot, the dining room and a closet. Where do Venezuelan employees prefer?

- I don't know much about public administration right now. Violating the site of maximum power is an interesting place. Now, there are people who have sex in the most inconceivable places, a product of emotion. There joy mixes with fear. Knowing that they can be caught, knowing that they are violating a rule of power, gives a certain degree of excitement… I have nothing to do with the lives of others, that people do what they want. It is not important that I agree, or disagree, because I will not be the one who generates the sexual policies for a company. That will tell the conscience of each one.

- A press release pointed out that work flirting was healthy. Will it really be like this?

- That is seduction, motivating the other sexually. Enjoy and make you enjoy with that half sexual game that is never going to be completed. It is good for all human beings, but it is especially good for some type of people who dream of doing, although everything remains in the possibility of actually doing.

- That is, the possibility of a project not achieved…

- Exactly, because that excites and is exciting. A seduction within an ecclesiastical environment would see it dangerous, but a seduction on a TV channel is –perhaps- normal. It all depends on the profession of the people, the team, what they do… Excited people, motivated people, people with enjoyment and people without satisfaction is a dangerous medium to work with. In other words, having people turned on by means of internal seduction and not giving them the exit, that can be to some extent a danger for companies.

- During a humorous program, one of the anchors publicly assumed that it was derogatory for some people to use the term "barragana" for a concubine. What opinion do you deserve? Is it a stigma?

- The word is horrible, it is a terrible concept because it is derogatory and the damage to someone's dignity and honor or pride… The sexual situation is one thing. I think that is everyone's agreement. When people decide to have their official lover and both parties agree and it is not a relationship of power, nor of dominance, because that is where the serious thing is. If you are fully exploiting your sexuality and the other is not deceived, that is an agreement, it is an alliance: "I help you in this and you help me in this"… Now, whether it is moral or immoral, that depends on each which one. For me the important thing would be that it is not unethical, that is, that they are not doing really transcendent harm to themselves or to any other person, that they are not hurting their dignity or are hurting the dignity of the other. That is to say,that he uses that power to run over the other because an ethical-ethical problem would already enter, if he is going to use it as a power to throw it in the face of other people. There it begins to hurt dignity and harm.

- What is the pathology of people who are unethical from the sexual point of view?

- They are people with degrees of significant psychopathy.

- And is this not related to self-esteem?

- We cannot be so categorical that all promiscuous workers have low self-esteem, because this is different from self-confidence. There are people who can do it very well, there are people who do it very badly and there are people who cause them a lot of guilt.

There are many concerns about this fascinating -from the scientific- and controversial -from the social and human- issue of labor sexuality vs. organizational power. Therefore, we also want to leave several questions open for those who feel the interest of your moral and ethical reflection, or bordering on simplistic or liberal interpretations. So, what do you think of the following ?: Will professional, spiritual and psychological success be compatible with the idea of practicing work sexuality? Based on human behaviors, how do you see the work privacy of the society in which you operate? Where is the blame for the exercise of unethical labor sexuality and how many will somatize it in full labor exercise? OR,How many have betrayed themselves in front of their peers for complexes of these practices? What is your opinion of assaults and public derision of a sexual nature at work? What do you think of the violation of vital spaces for erotic interest? What do you think about gay or bisexual-induced organizational machismo? What would you advise - from your human vision - to those who have love relationships at work? Have credible studies been carried out in Venezuela of how many people go to a psychiatrist or sexologist for putting sexuality into practice at work? In current times,Will there be cultural repression in the areas of workplace sexuality through harassment from the point of view of discrimination or defamation? Is it "kinky or normal" to have sexual fantasies at work? Where do we intend to leave those affected by sexual intrigues by hearsay and gossip? In itself, will passionate relationships affect the company or institution or not?

The blackouts of morale

I would like Dr. De Vries to give us his good advice and his opinion on these real cases:

1.- A current coordinator of events and protocol (formerly of institutional relations) shouts at work that she would not mind being the boss's wife, sees it as something "legal", and openly comments on it in a work meeting. She herself wastes non-verbal sympathy although she lies in her own gesture, and more so when she exposes the orgies to which - herself and explicitly - she comments that she has been invited to participate, although she states that she would not lend herself, despite giving the details and names of those involved. Also, she constantly talks about breasts, penises, buttocks, dildos or vibrators, with her co-workers.

"This is a very erotic woman and probably very unsatisfied, if she was satisfied she would not talk about it."

2.- A writer and journalist publishes an ironic story where it is presumed –and that depends on each reader-, that two anonymous officials could be in "something sexual" in an office, although the narrative content is clearly ethical from the particular vision of the protagonist of the story, who would have nothing to do with the writer since the story was structured from various work experiences. The story is told in the first person to generate greater empathy, suggestion, persuasion, and other literary techniques. It is not known what the protagonists of the story do because the technique of deception, among others, is used. It makes readers laugh. Some -for example- suggest that the story smells like a vagina, when in fact it stinks between –distanced from legs (Error),"Possible fault" of the reader if he fantasizes joining the words and assuming erotic ideas that are explicitly reflected in history. A self-conscious reader "gives herself away" by appropriating her (the story was made for a fiction magazine, behold, I repeat, fiction).

“As literary images I find it very attractive. When people laugh and make fun of a story - probably - it will be to show their own anguish. That writer is insinuating when working with the sense of smell, but as a writer he achieved something interesting… Everyone has erotic fantasies, and more so when there are several people together, that is normal. The reader may mistake it for a smell of the vagina (laughs)… The text could be the product of the reader's genitalization, even though it has nothing to do with the story… That is a very difficult literature to conceive ”.

3.- The official host of a television program publicly suggests that “everyone does what they want with their bodies”, which implies that they are not interested in the intimate lives of others. A reading of his speech could also suppose that this driver could “be doing with his body what he wants”. Then, in the same TV program, he makes a comment about another opposing political figure, hinting at his possible –possibly false- sexual preferences, as irresponsible gossip and without strong evidence.

“That suggests there is internal turmoil, unless you are not saying it because it does not bother you. But there she is disrespecting the other person who may not like her to air her life or to invent uncertain things ”.

4.- In a company a flyer of a group of employees who disagree with sexual harassment within the company is censored. A management prevents its reproduction out of respect for the institutional image and organizational climate.

"That is a defensive behavior, and that tries to hide something that maybe is happening."

5.- A leader of an organization buys a spacious beige sofa for his large office. The gossip that spreads outside the office is that they have seen the lover on the sofa and him hugging her.

"That is the intimate life of each one, now where did he get the sofa resource (laughs)".

6.- Certain employees of a management -maybe dissatisfied- change the status of said department, Public Affairs, it becomes known -among those of the same office- as "Public" Affairs. Employees comment that the former manager "offered" to some female employees, to senior executives. By changing the manager (from woman to man), the employees alter-again- the status of the respective management (including the secretary), now it becomes known internally as La caula de las locas. They expose - those of the gossip - that the one who takes the baton is the assistant to the leader of the management.

“That's kidding… They probably feel like there's a lot of homosexuality there. This is derogatory, a mockery. That goes against someone's dignity, honor and pride ”.

7.- A university professor sexually harasses several students and negotiates grades.

"Terrible! That teacher should solve his sexuality problems and not use that power relationship for the benefit of that illegitimate power."

It is subtracted from a Spanish virtual forum and another Mexican

Some Spaniard said: “I think we have to ask ourselves some things: 1) Is there someone worthwhile? My office has been characterized because most of the time we have had elements that do not exactly invite misbehavior. 2) Security and Discretion: How much the person who may be our accomplice is going to be discreet? How much should we get involved with someone without consequences? 3) Peace of mind: What if we come across the typical old mitotera who later wants one to comply with her, or who wants to give herself attributions in the workplace just because there was something in the staff. In Spain there is a very wise saying: "Where you have the pot, don't put your dick in." Although I have known cases where happy marriages have resulted from an employment relationship, it is also necessary to evaluate for mental health how convenient it is to make these decisions.We all have fancied a little colleague from work, or we have been harassed by one or another even though it does not meet our standards, but I think that work is something very delicate and that we can look for a lot of problems ”.

The Mexican in another forum stated: “I am a teacher at a university here in Monterrey and, well, having a lot of beautiful students, I fell into weakness and the truth is that I fought against it for a while but since I lost my ethics and went to conquer that girl. At first, he refused to go out with me, he even got offended, as time passed and after he knew me a little more, he agreed to go out with me. After a while we became boyfriends. She is now 24 years old and I am 26. And what do you think? Exactly tomorrow I will marry her ”.